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Ask Me Anything - World of Warcraft Style!


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PvP Question Inspired by Last Poster
siluna
zarkia wrote in ama_wow
Are there actually tactics for PvP battlegrounds? Does anyone ever say over the raid channel: you lot go here and do this, healers back them up... What is a tank supposed to do? It's not like taunts will work on actual players, is it?

Do you PvP often, and if so, why are noobs hated so much? Have you ever whispered someone who doesn't know what to do and give them some hints.

And to the noobs, have you ever asked what the tactics for a battleground are? If you have, has the reaction to your question ever been civil?

(Aside: why does this community not use tags?)

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Mostly people just know the rules...it isn't like the rules change. Battlegrounds stay the same, the only things that change are the people you fight. Occasionally there will be something like "Rogue in the flagroom" or "5 Inc Mines" to give people a heads up, but most people who PVP know the rules. Don't fight in the middle, don't fight on the roads, don't run around alone, etc. Sometimes there's a little more talking than others...a lot of premades require Vent, and certainly arena teams talk A LOT more...but...

i refuse to arena with anyone who doesn't have skype. bottom line.

I've recently dedicated myself to training my girlfriend for arena for this reason. I can't wait to just be sitting next to the person Im 2x2-ing with and not have to worry about vent/skype/etc. I dream about it.

word to the wise: be cautious of arena-ing with your significant other. my bf and i used to fight allthefuckingtime because of arenas. we're both hyper competitive and super bad losers so if we lost a bunch of games/points we'd both get hella snippy and turn into assholes and sulk and have grumpfest 2010. bad times for relationships. i also felt guilty cuz he was essentially carrying me and slumming in shitty 1600-1800 rank teams when i knew he could do better. we stopped arena-ing together and the pissy fighting stopped and now he's getting gladiator :D

I'm not too worried...just because neither of us take it too seriously. We'll never be the best team ever or anything, but we love playing together (got the healer/tank team down great), she's just afraid of PvP. I've got her regularly in unrated BGs though, so I'm excited :) Thanks for the warning, though!

just don't want someone else to go through what we did! all the fighting was so awful :(

good luck!!!

That sounds horrible D: I'm lucky that my gf is almost as much of pushover as me though, we have honestly never had a fight, and hardly ever even argue lol

Thanks for the luck :D

omg. yes. o_o

there are no tanks in BGs, per se. [with the exception of AV and isle] you might have a "tank" specced plate class run a flag or solo-defend a node while calling for backup, but there's not really a tank role in a BG. a rogue or priest or hunter could just as easily run flags or defend nodes.

as far as giving instructions in chat... it doesn't always work in a random bg but i ATTEMPT to "raid lead" when possible. generally people tend to reply with LOL STFU FAG I DO WHAT I WANT type answers, but every once in a while people understand that you need a leader and will listen to instructions. 15 people doing their own thing are less effective than 15 people working as a team.

there are boatloads of BG strats out there, i'll give you the rundown of our rated BG strats:
WSG/TP: FC + 2 support [flag team] head for flag via ramp, other 7 try to flank horde, stop EFC, prevent their first flag zerg. escort flag across field, leave heals with FC in FR, all DPS attack EFC as a group. repeat.
gilneas: hunter guard LH. everyone else zerg WW. if horde goes WW, zerg mine. spam AOE on flag, focus fire heals then DPS. have a few people spam capping node at all times. once you establish control of 2 nodes, 3 cap may or may not be possible depending on how badly the other team splits itself trying to take something back. if the whole team zergs a node, leave it.
AB: hunter guard ST. split team between LM and BS. rotate as needed. take farm/mine if/when possible. defend defend defend.
EOTS: cap 2 bases, send small group to mid to grab flag. leave small teams at controlled nodes, send rest of team to take other 2 enemy nodes. take flag when you can, hold until your team controls mid then cap for chain flag runs.
SOTA: attacking -- call out a gate to zerg, everyone swarm. melee drive, ranged/heals run along and defend. spam dispell tanks. ignore players, tunnel tanks/gates. swarm swarm zerg. run bombs at yellow if needed. if first zerg fails, send tanks in groups. defending -- IGNORE THE CANNONS THEY ARE USELESS. split team evenly. spam slow tanks. load tanks with every single debuff possible [even the useless ones like hunters mark, wyvern sting, etc] to make the healers go oom trying to dispell slows. do not let a tank through the gate.
AV: small team [~10] take galv. cap and defend towers. other small team [~5] zerg RH, take RH then E/WFWT. defend. work map from both sides, flank horde, leave teams in towers until ~10 seconds left then leave. depending on horde's pressure on towers, you may need a team of back-cappers to reclaim towers/GYs in mid. as towers cap, start to bring the team south, leaving plenty of defense for towers. when last tower is ~1 min out, everyone down south. who's the tank? all in to drek, kill kill kill!
isle: if you get this bg, just leave. it sucks. seriously, though, cap quarry, docks, hangar asap. don't zerg mid, WE ALWAYS LOSE IF WE DO THAT. get at least 10 people inside the enemy base, START RUNNING BOMBS IMMEDIATELY. pick a gate and EVERYONE bomb that gate. grab workshop after it's calmed down and run vehicles up to the gates. lol glaives~ moar bombs, gate's down, whos the tank? ALL IN. GOGO KILL KILL KILL KILL.

general rules:
in tower/node capping BGs, ALWAYS FIGHT ON THE NODE. NEVER. EVER. EVER. LEAVE. EVER. if the team zergs then runs, let them run. it might be an attempt to draw defense away for a ninjacap. WATCH FOR STEALTH!
if you are carrying the flag, SAVE YOUR FUCKING TRINKET. i don't care if you need a freedom to get out of the hunter trap roots mage frosty thing. unless you're going to DIE, you do not need to trinket. call for freedom. your healers will give you one. i cannot tell you how many times we've been screaming CAP CAP CAP and the FC says "i was snared" as we watch the EFC run out of our base with the flag we JUST wiped our team trying to return >_<

also, side note, taunts DO work on pets/minions. i use distracting shot to peel a pet off a healer or fade to de-aggro a pet.

god, i love pvp.

Just curious why you stick a hunter back to guard the closest node in AB and Gilneas?

What class is your FC in WSG/TP?

camouflage + traps + multishot + master's call + deterrence = incredibly utilitarian class that can see an incoming, call it out and hold it off the flag long enough for backup to arrive.

oh, also, for FC, it depends on our comp. we usually had a prot pally/blood dk running flags, but have had druids, rogues and hunters successfully carry/cap the flag. i've 3 capped a non-rated BG on my priest before. any class can carry a flag in a random or rated... it all depends on who's with the FC and how good the rest of your group is at offense. with enough priests, locks and warriors in the group, you can chain-fear the flag across the field.

Druid flag carrier here. Biggest problem we're running into is keeping me alive. I know that just about anyone geared in a random bg can cap the flag. I'm looking strictly at this from a rated battleground point of view where teams are coordinated, and communicating well. I get my ass torn up, despite having 3 healers on me. It's kind of hard for me to see what is going on in the enemy flag room.

I guess my question to you is, does the fact that I'm getting torn up with 3 healers on me, and the EFC is staying alive with 3 healers on him, does that mean our DPS is crap?

Our team does ok. I just passed a 1200 rating in rated battlegrounds. I'm trying to figure out what we can do better. Thanks for the hunter suggestion. I'm going to forward that to our resident hunter and stick him on the home node from now on.

Sounds like there's a pretty big lack of CC going on from your team. Your healers should be focusing all of their freedoms on you and then themselves. The 4pc priest set gives you a freedom every time you bubble yourself, so I spam cleanse my target [aka FC] and throw bubbles on myself on every CD.

Your DPS might not be putting out as much damage as the other team, but DPS really doesn't matter in a BG. You're probably just getting out played. Successful PvP really comes down to good use of CC and out-thinking the other team. Good strategy and communication is KEY, but you also need to be able to completely change your entire plan of attack at the drop of a hat and your team needs to be able to adapt quickly and easily to the changes. I assume your team has default strats for each BG, yes? How do you guys cope when the other team does something to throw a wrench in your plans and you have to modify your strat?

Do you have a designated target-caller? The worst thing you can do in PvP [and PvE] is spread your attack out. Focusing down a single target at a time is important. One thing people also need to keep in mind is that while you're burning down one target [say, the main healer], you need to be CCing other problem targets [like the other healer who's spamming heals on the guy you're trying to kill].

People also need to be calling out cooldowns on vent. Tell the group who you are GOING to CC, when the CC hits, and when the cooldown is wearing off. Scatter-trapping priest. Druid is silenced. Tranqing warrior. Etc.

I know it sounds like a lot of constant talking, but there should really only be 2 or 3 people talking on vent the entire BG.

First off, thanks so much again for your help.

We don't have a regular priest who rolls with us. We tend to be pally heavy. I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the different classes, but it is difficult to do sometimes. Thanks for the info on priests. I'm going to see if maybe we can recruit a regular one for the rated team.

I'm pretty sure a part of the problem with the dps team is not crowd controlling enough. We need to practice on that some more. The problem i'm finding there i think is that people don't know who to cc and when. It's difficult for me (as the leader) to call those out since I'm not there with them, and on top of that I'm still working on who has what crowd controls, how long they last, how they work, etc. (like you can put a healer in roots all you want, but they can still keep spamming those heals). This is an area I need to work on since I'm not familiar enough with what they can do.

Yes we have a default strat for each of the bg's. They actually work about half the time too. It's when the strat goes wrong that things start to go down hill. I've gotten better about what changes should be made, and when, when the strat goes bad. In fact last night I made a freakin awesome call that one of our people thought was a bad idea, they did it anyway, it worked, all glory to me. That is another place i need to get better at leading, but I'm still trying to figure out just what I should be doing when we seem to be able to get back water works, or whatever.

Sorry for this bit of confusion.. are you saying that there should only be 2-3 people calling out strats and everyone calling out cooldowns? otherwise how can the people call out cooldowns if they aren't supposed to talk?

We try to have a designated target caller, but he kinda sucks at it. When I'm being left alone in our flag room I can set him as focus, and then see who he is targeting and call it out for him, but I can't do that when I'm trying to watch my own health and cool downs. We have him as our target caller because he does the most damage in the battleground, it makes sense he should be the one calling them.

I wonder if recruiting a dedicated flag carrier and leading the dps team should be the way to go. I'm supposed to be the leader here, but it's hard for me to lead if i can't see what's going on in the enemy flag room.

I worded that weirdly, my apologies. I was trying to say that even though it sounds like there would be shittons of talking going on with all the communication I'm saying needs to happen, there will only be a couple people talking at any given time. Everyone needs to be speaking up in vent, with priority given to the leader(s) and target caller(s).

If you do not have someone you trust to lead the DPS team then you might want to recruit someone else to carry the flag so you can lead from the offensive group. My BG leader was a hpally who was able to lead pretty effectively from inside the FR but he also had a second in command type guy who was on the offensive team to call shit out when he couldn't see things to micro manage from where he was. The way our assignments work are we are put into groups before we queue, everyone knows their role, we go over basic strats, etc. A target caller is designated and people know who to group up with when "regroup" is called. Raid markers are placed on people based on their role. I tend to put marks on FC and healers so they can be quickly spotted at all times on the map. Once the BG pops, group lead is passed to our leader and he has a /rw macro with specific strats for that particular BG. He does most of the talking for the first few minutes then we split into our groups and the only talking you hear is CC/cooldowns being called out. Every once in a while, the leader will call out stuff "we need more people doing X, Y, Z" etc. He can see on the mini map where the team is and based on what is being called out over vent he knows where the horde is and where we NEED to be. If your team is communicating effectively, you shouldn't really need to be in the EFR to know what's going on and lead your team.

I find raid/bg leading to be especially challenging because I have a very... idk, passive? lead style. I explain what needs to happen and then expect people to do it. I don't feel like I need to be constantly barking orders. People tend to not listen to me because I'm a girl, I guess. But when they do, we win. So in situations like this, I am quite content to let someone else lead and just be in charge of micro management. Something that people have a hard time with is understanding that when someone makes a call, you go with it. Even if you think they are wrong, you go with it. Because an entire team doing something is stronger than the 2 guys who ran off to do their own thing cuz they thought the leader was wrong.

What is important to you in these games? Winning and ratings or dicking around with some friends? You can do both, but if you want to win, you cannot carry someone. Basically, if someone isn't pulling their weight, they need to step up or you need to replace them. If your target caller can't handle the job under pressure, then find someone else who can. If you have no one to direct the offensive team, find someone who can. It's not your job as FC and RL to sit there and call out targets for someone else. That's the whole point of having a designated target caller. You can't do his job for him, too. You're the leader, yes, but your team isn't a ramshackle group of lemmings. They need to be able to make decisions in a pinch, too. If you can tell them what to do, great. If you're busy, they need to be able to know what their job is and to do it without being told every step of the way how to do it.

wow - this is so much info. thanks :)

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